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	<title>Comments on: The Great VSS Debate</title>
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	<link>http://veeammeup.com/2010/01/the-great-vss-debate.html</link>
	<description>The Veeam Team</description>
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		<title>By: FUD For Thought &#124; VeeamMeUp</title>
		<link>http://veeammeup.com/2010/01/the-great-vss-debate.html/comment-page-1#comment-621</link>
		<dc:creator>FUD For Thought &#124; VeeamMeUp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 May 2010 20:38:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://veeammeup.com/?p=213#comment-621</guid>
		<description>[...] The Great VSS Debate [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Great VSS Debate [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Overview of image level backup solutions for VMware vSphere &#171; UP2V</title>
		<link>http://veeammeup.com/2010/01/the-great-vss-debate.html/comment-page-1#comment-488</link>
		<dc:creator>Overview of image level backup solutions for VMware vSphere &#171; UP2V</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://veeammeup.com/?p=213#comment-488</guid>
		<description>[...] Mind that VMware vSphere is not able to make application consistent snapshot of Windows Server 2008 guests running a Micrsoft database application. You will need a backup tool that is able to perform the correct VSS calls. Read all about this at the Veeam blogsite  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mind that VMware vSphere is not able to make application consistent snapshot of Windows Server 2008 guests running a Micrsoft database application. You will need a backup tool that is able to perform the correct VSS calls. Read all about this at the Veeam blogsite  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Is your VMware snapshot application consistent ?? &#171; UP2V</title>
		<link>http://veeammeup.com/2010/01/the-great-vss-debate.html/comment-page-1#comment-487</link>
		<dc:creator>Is your VMware snapshot application consistent ?? &#171; UP2V</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 21:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://veeammeup.com/?p=213#comment-487</guid>
		<description>[...] also read the blogpost on the VeeamMeUp website. Very interesting articles and links on making application consistent snapshots for your [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] also read the blogpost on the VeeamMeUp website. Very interesting articles and links on making application consistent snapshots for your [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brendan</title>
		<link>http://veeammeup.com/2010/01/the-great-vss-debate.html/comment-page-1#comment-474</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 12:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://veeammeup.com/?p=213#comment-474</guid>
		<description>To be fair to Veeam, I don&#039;t see how this could possibly be implemented without completely suspending the whole system. Basically, it is technically impossible to create snapshots of multiple VMs at once. So in your example, hot backups will always result in differences between metadata and files state (from seconds to minutes).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be fair to Veeam, I don&#8217;t see how this could possibly be implemented without completely suspending the whole system. Basically, it is technically impossible to create snapshots of multiple VMs at once. So in your example, hot backups will always result in differences between metadata and files state (from seconds to minutes).</p>
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		<title>By: vmdoug</title>
		<link>http://veeammeup.com/2010/01/the-great-vss-debate.html/comment-page-1#comment-473</link>
		<dc:creator>vmdoug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 11:49:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://veeammeup.com/?p=213#comment-473</guid>
		<description>Michael,

Yes, it&#039;s very difficult to get application consistency across an application that stores transactional data across several servers. Since Veeam uses VMware snapshots to create backups, we don&#039;t have a way to control exactly when each snap gets created. For applications like you suggest (that store transactional data across several VM&#039;s) the only true way to get a consistent backup would be to use agents on the VM&#039;s that are aware of that particular application.

The intent of the post was not to say that Veeam can backup EVERY application by using VSS (the application itself has to be VSS aware) but simply state that Veeam&#039;s VSS implementation is more complete than others out there, including VMware which is not application VSS aware on Windows Server 2008.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,</p>
<p>Yes, it&#8217;s very difficult to get application consistency across an application that stores transactional data across several servers. Since Veeam uses VMware snapshots to create backups, we don&#8217;t have a way to control exactly when each snap gets created. For applications like you suggest (that store transactional data across several VM&#8217;s) the only true way to get a consistent backup would be to use agents on the VM&#8217;s that are aware of that particular application.</p>
<p>The intent of the post was not to say that Veeam can backup EVERY application by using VSS (the application itself has to be VSS aware) but simply state that Veeam&#8217;s VSS implementation is more complete than others out there, including VMware which is not application VSS aware on Windows Server 2008.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hoffmann</title>
		<link>http://veeammeup.com/2010/01/the-great-vss-debate.html/comment-page-1#comment-472</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hoffmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 01:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://veeammeup.com/?p=213#comment-472</guid>
		<description>What this blog fails to mention is that Veeam only offers &quot;application consistency&quot; and &quot;transaction consistency&quot; for backups in VMs *if* your application suite stores information on a single server.

This is not only our own experience during our recent evaluation of Veeam, but also straight from the horse&#039;s mouth  - a Veeam engineer named Mikhail who sent me a somewhat condescending email.

When you have the requirement of having to take snapshots to backup systems that distribute their transactional information across multiple servers - such as Datasets with HP&#039;s Trim eDRMS (which stores files on a regular file server and meta-data in an RDBMS) - then you are SOL with Veeam.

I wish it weren&#039;t so - we liked Veeam and loved its performance, lack of needing a client agent, integration of both backup and replication in a single suite. But there&#039;s hype and there&#039;s the reality of real-word application suites.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What this blog fails to mention is that Veeam only offers &#8220;application consistency&#8221; and &#8220;transaction consistency&#8221; for backups in VMs *if* your application suite stores information on a single server.</p>
<p>This is not only our own experience during our recent evaluation of Veeam, but also straight from the horse&#8217;s mouth  &#8211; a Veeam engineer named Mikhail who sent me a somewhat condescending email.</p>
<p>When you have the requirement of having to take snapshots to backup systems that distribute their transactional information across multiple servers &#8211; such as Datasets with HP&#8217;s Trim eDRMS (which stores files on a regular file server and meta-data in an RDBMS) &#8211; then you are SOL with Veeam.</p>
<p>I wish it weren&#8217;t so &#8211; we liked Veeam and loved its performance, lack of needing a client agent, integration of both backup and replication in a single suite. But there&#8217;s hype and there&#8217;s the reality of real-word application suites.</p>
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		<title>By: Barry Coombs</title>
		<link>http://veeammeup.com/2010/01/the-great-vss-debate.html/comment-page-1#comment-460</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry Coombs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 20:01:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://veeammeup.com/?p=213#comment-460</guid>
		<description>Customers appreciate the speed and ease from their agents on these kind of applications, so they tend to keep there agents from the physical world when they virtualise. Just would be nice to take it down to one backup product in use. 

If a vendor ever came out with a solution that meant we could manage the whole backup process with 1 piece of software it would be a high priority to investigate. 

At the moment it tends to be virtualisation backup vendor (Veeam usually) and Traditional vendor (backup exec usually) for agents and to tape portion if needed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Customers appreciate the speed and ease from their agents on these kind of applications, so they tend to keep there agents from the physical world when they virtualise. Just would be nice to take it down to one backup product in use. </p>
<p>If a vendor ever came out with a solution that meant we could manage the whole backup process with 1 piece of software it would be a high priority to investigate. </p>
<p>At the moment it tends to be virtualisation backup vendor (Veeam usually) and Traditional vendor (backup exec usually) for agents and to tape portion if needed.</p>
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		<title>By: rickyelqasem</title>
		<link>http://veeammeup.com/2010/01/the-great-vss-debate.html/comment-page-1#comment-459</link>
		<dc:creator>rickyelqasem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 19:48:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://veeammeup.com/?p=213#comment-459</guid>
		<description>Barry you can perform granular restores of Exchange, SQL and so from an image-level backup if you know what you are doing. For example a single email restore. Requires some manual steps in the middle but negates the need for expensive agents. OK I admit not as slick as having the functionality built-in to the GUI but it can still be done at no extra cost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barry you can perform granular restores of Exchange, SQL and so from an image-level backup if you know what you are doing. For example a single email restore. Requires some manual steps in the middle but negates the need for expensive agents. OK I admit not as slick as having the functionality built-in to the GUI but it can still be done at no extra cost.</p>
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		<title>By: VMDoug at 01/08/10 12:02:41 &#124; Exectweets</title>
		<link>http://veeammeup.com/2010/01/the-great-vss-debate.html/comment-page-1#comment-457</link>
		<dc:creator>VMDoug at 01/08/10 12:02:41 &#124; Exectweets</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 12:24:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://veeammeup.com/?p=213#comment-457</guid>
		<description>[...] Pro Tweets       Getting some good comments on my VSS blog post: http://veeammeup.com/2010/01/the-great-vss-debate.html       VMDoug  - Fri 08 Jan 12:02  0 votes                           All Things [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Pro Tweets       Getting some good comments on my VSS blog post: <a href="http://veeammeup.com/2010/01/the-great-vss-debate.html" rel="nofollow">http://veeammeup.com/2010/01/the-great-vss-debate.html</a>       VMDoug  &#8211; Fri 08 Jan 12:02  0 votes                           All Things [...]</p>
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		<title>By: links for 2010-01-08 &#124; Savage Nomads</title>
		<link>http://veeammeup.com/2010/01/the-great-vss-debate.html/comment-page-1#comment-455</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2010-01-08 &#124; Savage Nomads</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 11:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://veeammeup.com/?p=213#comment-455</guid>
		<description>[...] The Great VSS Debate « VeeamMeUp (tags: veeam) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Great VSS Debate « VeeamMeUp (tags: veeam) [...]</p>
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